1923 T-Bucket July 2010 My T-Bucket project started with ordering a "deluxe" frame assembly and a 4 wheel disc brake kit from Speedway Motors for about $3900. The frame comes complete with the brake master cylinder and pedal, steering gear box, engine and transmission cross members, a fully assembled front axle, and a Ford 9" differential housing with axle shafts and coil over shocks. The frames are made-to-order so I've been told it will be 2 to 3 weeks before it is delivered. Nothing to do now but sit and enjoy my next few weekends off.
As a consumer I have a problem with false advertising. If a company is going to use an image (picture) to depict a product in their advertising, I expect to get what is in the picture. This is the problem I had with Speedway Motors. I called a week after placing my order to confirm how the frame assembly would be shipped. To save a little money on shipping I was having the assembly delivered to the warehouse at work, but I needed to know if I was going to be able to load and unload it by myself to get it home. During the conversation I asked about several of the components and was informed that some of the parts depicted on the site were not included in the "kit" I bought, like the rear axle. The only explanation I got was that the picture "may be a little misleading". DO YOU THINK?!?!?!?! There was no disclaimer (at the time) to suggest you needed to purchase additional parts to get everything in the picture (they have since added this). I was a little more than pissed off so I abruptly cancelled the order until I could figure out what to do next. The additional cost of the rear axle housing was going to be over $900, I had ordered the front and rear disc brake setup along with the frame thinking I was going to have a rolling chassis put together by the time I was ready to place my next order.
By the next day I had calmed down, but was disappointed enough that I knew I wasn't going to re-order the frame. I started scanning Craigslist and paid a little more attention to the T-Buckets that were for sale. I found a couple of projects that would need to be finished (started, in some cases), then I found a running / drivable T-Bucket in my price range. It had been listed for over a month so it was possible that it was already sold, but I called anyway. To my surprise the car was still available and I drove it home a couple weeks later. I'll get into more details on it as I start to update / repair a few things. But here is what I bought:
1 ½"x 3" Boxed Frame and Fiberglass Body Front and Rear Mono Leaf Springs Titled / Registered as a 1968 "Assembled" vehicle 1957 Oldsmobile J2 "Golden Rocket" V8 Engine (371 ci) and 3 Speed Manual Transmission Custom Headers (Capped) with auxiliary Glasspak Exhaust running under the body I-Beam Front Axle w/custom supports Oldsmobile Rear Axle with Open Diff (not posi) Front Disc / Rear Drum Brakes with Rear Emergency / Parking Brakes Steel Radiator Grill Shell New Torque Thrust Wheels and BF Goodrich Radial T/A Tires 10 Gal Fuel Tank and Battery mounted in the Pickup Box with a Handmade Oak Cover Handmade Oak Dash with New White-faced Autometer Gauges
...and authentic Oogah horn
For only a little more money that the parts I had ordered at Speedway I now have a drivable T-Bucket. The car needs work as the car could have been engineered better, but it was well worth the price I paid. The engine is very rare and very desirable, it was only made for 2 years and has the factory tri-carb (6 pak) setup. I have no plans to change it because it epitomizes what hotrods were all about back in the 1950's and 1960's: Using the parts you had available rather than ordering everything from a catalog. This is exactly what you would have expected to find on early hotrods, and I like "nostalgic".
There was no interior in the car. The seat back is nothing more than a large piece of foam with a black fabric draped over it and a towel covering the bottom. I've already changed out the chain link steering wheel for a more comfortable style. I haven't decided what the final look of the interior will be, so I may change it again later. I plan to tune the carbs and resolve a few minor issues right away, but I am going to keep the car drivable for the rest of the summer and enjoy my new project.
Here are a few more pictures of the car as it was purchased:
August 2010 I've had time to look over the car pretty good by now and have been formulating a plan to make some changes. Most of it is aesthetic (cosmetic), trying to give the car a more aggressive stance and appearance, but some of it will be functional. I have already replaced the "chain link" steering wheel for a more comfortable style, and reshaped the gear shift lever to move it out of my way a little. Some other items I found are making me more nervous; the brake lines are not secured very well; and the wiring doesn't appear to have been planned, there are wires everywhere; and the front wheels are way off on the Camber angle. As much as I want to enjoy this car, I better think about fixing some of the safety items first. September 2010 The Plan: After a careful inspection I have developed a wish list of thing I want to do to this car. First and foremost, as I stated before, I need to fix the safety issues. After that I want to change the look of the car. In it's current configuration I would call this car a "traditional" style T-Bucket. The stance is a bit high and some of the parts were engineered for function without any real regard for appearance. The exhaust and axle mounts are good examples. I want it to be more of a "hot rod" style by lowering it to the ground, I'll do that with a new front axle that will drop the frame about 4" in the front, and an adjustable coilover shock setup for the rear. A new (correct) front axle will also resolve the Camber angle with the front wheels. The engine will have to be raised on the frame to maintain ground clearance, but only a few inches. I'll also fabricate a set of traditional T-Bucket headers for the engine, re-route the brake and fuel lines, clean up the wiring and chop the windshield 4 or 5 inches. Over the years this car has had things added and removed from the frame, so there are (unused) brackets all over. I'll get rid of anything I don't plan to use to help clean it up. I need to work on this in the correct order to make sure I don't create more work for myself. Then I can re-mount the steering column through the firewall to help with leg room, and install an interior (I am going to try my hand at sewing). The last thing I will need are the rear "Steam Roller" tires. The tires I have now are 9 1/2" wide, the ones I want are about 15" wide. Should be a big improvement in the look once the car is lowered to the ground a bit.
October 2010 I called Jim at Wintec Fabrication (several times) and we discussed my options to resolve my front end problems. I ordered a new front axle with a 4" drop, a new front spring, new hairpin rods (they connect the front axle to the frame), and a mounting plate for the bottom of the spring. All together I spent $600 with shipping. I decided to replace the front axle and suspension to fix 2 issues. 1. The front wheel camber was off
because the wrong axle / spindle combination was used previously. The new axle corrected those problems, but created a few more. I'll explain as we go. After getting the frame cleaned up I installed the new front axle and hairpin. I cut off a small portion of the brackets Jim sent me and welded them to the frame. I'm getting pretty good at welding. I like the new lowered look, but now I have to rework the steering arms. I bolted a wooden closet rod between the steering arms so I can keep the front wheels in line while I am working on the car and to make sure I have the proper clearance. This is my first new issue: The new axle is 5" narrower and 4" lower than the old axle, now my steering cross bar travels directly through the space that my radiator needs to sit in. The easiest way to correct this is to install new arms on the spindles, it's not overly expensive but it's not the preferred steering setup as it leaves the steering linkage out in front of the axle. However there are plenty of T-Buckets on the road with this configuration so I am not too worried about it. I'll need to replace the arms though as moving the steering out front changes the geometry. Then, because the new axle is narrower than the old one, I'll have to replace the cross bar. Oh joy. I still don't know how I am going to mount the shocks, the old mounts were ugly and wouldn't work anyway so they were cut off.
November 2010
Raising the engine in the frame creates other problems too. The first, and for some the biggest, is interior foot room. As the engine is raised it starts to invade the interior space from below, this is why rear wheel drive cars have that hump in the floor, that's where the transmission bell housing and drive shaft runs under the car. T-Buckets are notoriously limited on interior space to begin with and every square inch is needed. Luckily my 3 speed manual trans is smaller than most (compared to a Chevy TH350 automatic), so I have a head start. But I am in another predicament in that I need all the room I can get to accommodate a clutch pedal, this is why most guys don't build these with a manual transmission. It's a trade off that you make when building one of these. Another issue was the engine fan: With the engine raised the upper radiator hose is now in the way. I could either raise the radiator and grille shell to move them out of the way of the fan, but that would take away from the lowered stance by making the front end of the car look too tall, and it just wouldn't look right. Or I could remove the mechanical fan and install an electric one. That seemed like a better choice so I got started on my new mounts. I planned the mounts to look similar to the old ones, not too bulky but sturdy enough to support the weight. I managed to make them with scraps I had laying around from other projects. I compromised a little and set the engine with 4" of ground clearance instead of the 4½" I originally planned, but it shouldn't be a problem.
February 2011 March 2011 Anyway, Bob and I started talking and he came over to check out the progress on my car. I pointed out the issues I was having with mounting some items and he agreed that a new frame was going to solve most of my problems. Now before you start thinking he was trying to make a sale, he offered to help me build a new frame if I bought the steel. It took me a full second and a half to realize this was an opportunity I should NOT pass up. We picked up all the steel we would need and had it cut to length in about an hour. This frame will be 6" longer than the old one, it will be 24" wide in front and 30" wide at the rear (the old frame was 26½" wide front and rear), and the kick-up over the rear axle will be 7" high (the old one was 10"). The longer frame will allow me to move the engine an inch or two back so I have more room for an electric fan on the radiator, and I'll be able to move the body forward to get the rear kick-ups out of the interior. This way I can move my seat back so I am not so cramped while driving, T-Buckets are notorious for this.
The new frame will also solve an issue with my gas tank. I have a 10 gallon tank that mounts on the rear "deck" which fits inside the small pickup style box on the rear of a T-Bucket. After setting the body back on the frame I noticed the tank stuck out of the pickup box so far the lid would not close. Whoever worked on this last compensated for the taller kick-ups by shimming the body several inches up on the mounts to get the tank to fit down inside the body. The whole car rode too high to begin with, this added height didn't help. With the shorter kick-ups the tank will sit down inside the body with no problems. Then there is the front axle. I had it mounted, but I wasn't able to get the correct caster on it. Basically, you want the bottom of the front axle to slant outward about 5º - 7º. This puts a preload on the axle when the car is moving forward. I set the axle with the hairpin rods, but when I bolted the spring to the front perch it was binding on the spring shackles. The front frame cross member was square, and when they welded the perch they didn't weld it at an angle, it was more or less straight. The new frame will have a round 3" diameter front cross member that we will be able to weld in at any angle we want. Ok, I've bored you enough with all the chit chat. Next time I'll post pictures of the frame being welded and how we set the engine, axles, and body back on. In the mean time I have some research to do an upcoming modifications. I have a feeling I'm going to miss my original May / June deadline to have this back on the road.
April 2011 I was only going to gauge if there was any actual interest in the engine at first. I figured if I didn't get enough to make it worth selling I would just suck it up and do what I had to to get this engine to work with my new frame. I opened an eBay auction with a reserve price of $3500 (like I said, I wasn't sure what it was worth and I didn't want to give it away). I was surprised at how much interest there was; after 3 days I had close to 50 people watching the auction and bidding was already up to $700. I waited a couple more days until the bidding was close to $1000 and dropped the reserve to $1500. I figured $1500 was fair, I was hoping for $1800 and anything over that was icing on the cake. The final price was $2025, I was pleased (to say the least). I took some pictures of Bob welding the frame for me. I had told him I wanted the frame to sit as low as I could get it, he suggested changing the front axle to a "spring behind" style which would lower the front end another 2". So we modified the existing front radius rod brackets, made new spring mounts, When I got it home I remounted the front and rear axles and brackets. Once again I have a rolling chassis. I used an empty engine block I had bought, but never used, to mock up the engine mounts. Then I worked on the steering box and the front shock mounts. After everything was tack welded into place I took the frame back over to Bob's and we finish welded all the brackets.
May 2011
Update: June 2011
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| Before Mounting the Body | Front View | Left Side View | Ready For Wiring |
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